This week’s podcast features Katie Neginsky with the International Women’s Resource Center. IWRC is a “community of learning, support, and resources for refugee and immigrant women and their families focused on building joy and momentum.” It offers plenty of ways for people to get involved with helping refugees adjust to American culture from teaching classes online, to helping at events, to fundraising. To get more involved, there’s plenty of resources on their website.

This podcast is the first of a new series we’ll be doing to introduce readers and listeners to non-profits in the region where they can volunteer time and treasure to make a real difference. If podcasts aren’t your medium of choice, you can read a transcript of the interview below and Katie wrote a piece for Next about IWRC and the value that volunteers provide people adjusting to, or preparing to come, to America.

In the interview, we talk about two of the websites that they run: their official webpage and curiosity literacy.

But the interview isn’t all business! In our “fun” section we talk about both Barbenheimer and how some cultures find peanut butter to be the weirdest thing imaginable.

If you’re just joining us, you can catch up on past episodes of Santa Monica Next: Episode 1 with Jesse ZwickEpisode 2 with Kate CagleEpisode 3 with Rick ColeEpisode 4 with Abby Arnold, Episode 5 with Cynthia RoseEpisode 6 with Daniel Ivanov, and Episode 7 with Jon Katz.


wn 8

Tue, Aug 15, 2023 4:25PM • 35:09


volunteers, participants, people, class, work, podcast, barbecue, english language, students, kids, american culture, fun, peanut butter, programming, refugees, la, patsy cline, santa monica, knitting, dolly parton


Damien Newton, Katie Neginsky

Damien Newton  00:01

Welcome to Episode 8 of the Santa Monica Next podcast. What’s next? Today I’m here with Katie Neginsky with the International Women’s Resource Center. This is the first podcast in what’s going to be a series that will accompany some articles on the website that’s aimed at introducing people in Santa Monica and the westside and anyone who might be listening to some great nonprofits that you can plug into, and you can do some volunteer work . That’s going to have some great impact locally, or in this case, locally and beyond. Rather than me going into a large explanation. Why don’t we just kick it off right away with Katie, why don’t you just tell us a little bit about what IWRC is and some of its recent history.

Katie Neginsky  00:39

Thanks for having me. My name is Katie. And Neginsky and I founded the International Women’s Resource Center, or IWRC affectionately, in early 2022. So, we’re a young organization just about a year and a half old. We provide educational programming, and community building programming for refugee and immigrant participants. Our main focus is on refugees and immigrants in LA County, and Orange County, but we have three different international programs as well running in different countries. And we have so much fun just providing great educational programming, family literacy, health literacy, workforce prep, and community building opportunities for this population. And all of that relies on volunteers. So all the more the merrier.

Damien Newton  01:41

Now, actually, in our notes, I had that we were going to talk about volunteerism in a little bit, that was the “topic that I want to talk about” for our regular listeners. But why don’t we just transition right into that since you just mentioned the volunteers, and you had mentioned when we were talking just a couple minutes ago, that you do an English language learning podcasts also. So there’s lots of different programs that that IWRC has that that people locally can get involved in.

Katie Neginsky  02:06

Absolutely. So our program is designed to be very nimble, flexible, and responsive to what the participants request. So we get all kinds of requests from our refugee and immigrant participants of things that they would like to see out of our programming, or materials they would like us to produce or events they would like us to host. And we find a way to do it. And a lot of that is through the very generous, generous work and dedication of our volunteers. Right now we have about 250 volunteers in LA County, the majority of them work virtually as one on one English language tutors. So they submit a short intake form to us about their availability, there background as far as what languages they speak, but it’s not required to speak another language, if they have any preferences about the length, first language of the student. All of that sort of fun information. And then we match the volunteer tutors with participants. And then they meet virtually for tutoring, and the students have a wide variety of goals. Some of them are just starting out with English. Some of them are quite proficient, but they want to learn more American slang and conversational English, which is always fun. Some of them want more specific workforce preparation. So we try to match them with a volunteer who works in the same field that the participant worked in in their home country. So everything’s very tailored for the best possible experience for the participant and for the volunteer. We also use volunteers to lead workshops or short term group classes online, if they have an area of expertise they would like to share so some volunteers lead health literacy classes or family literacy classes for participants. Other volunteers lead really fun classes like it could be a knitting class, it could be a meditation class, it could be a class about American stand up comedy. All of these topics are really interesting and fun for the participants. And they all help the participants learn English. And usually it’s more memorable because it’s coming through some fun content. We also use volunteers for our kids club, which is really fun. So once a month. We have a group of kids that meet together and I talked to them about different refugee and immigrant issues so they’re learning more about this population. And we have different projects that we do one of them being a birthday kit fundraiser, not a fundraising drive, but a materials drive. So they will go out into their communities or their schools or within their friends and family and collect birthday party supplies. And then we all meet together and have a session of creating birthday party kits. And those go out to the participants so that they have those materials ready to create a fun and memorable birthday party for their kids. So that’s another really fun way to get involved with volunteering. We have many more items all listed out on the website that you’re welcome to check out. But the main three are English language tutors, the workshop leaders and the kids club.

Damien Newton  05:50

Do you want people that are teachers or certified teachers? Or is this something where people can if they have an interest in helping with this, or even if it’s somehow related to something else that they do in life, just be able to plug in?

Katie Neginsky  06:09

Yeah, and anyone’s welcome. Of course, English proficiency is necessary. But other than that, we need the volunteers where they are and the participants where they are. So we do have some very experienced English teachers, they may be retired teachers, or teachers that are just finishing their master’s in curriculum and instruction and they want some practicum hours in we tend to place those teachers with beginning level students that may be pre literate in their native language. Because that really requires a more structured class. But we have other people who have different specialties. So if it’s someone who is never taught before, but they work in tech, then we could place them with a participant who has intermediate or advanced level English and worked in tech in their home country. And maybe this is an area where they can build up common language.

Damien Newton  07:09

As you were talking, I was flashing back to the virtual taekwondo classes. I was running online during the earlier years of the pandemic, remembering those and was like, “I wonder if that’s something that would work. Although I’m not really much of a I’m not a formally trained teacher.” 

Katie Neginsky  07:27

Taekwondo would be great. We’ve run to yoga classes online in the participants love it. It’s all in English. It’s a great way to practice the body parts. We had a volunteer who was in India, so we do use volunteers that are in other countries. And he is a yogi master in India, and he led the classes in English for our students in Los Angeles. So that was really cool.

Damien Newton  07:55

No, yeah, that’s cool. All right  It’s been awhile. I’ll have to set up my matts outside again.

Katie Neginsky  08:17

I love when volunteers bring their passion or their hobbies. Like I mentioned, the knitting, this one was really popular. We collected all the materials that the students would need to knit, and mailed them to all of the students that enrolled and then one of the volunteers would sit and do knitting classes with them virtually. And some of the students already knew how to knit and maybe they could embroider and so and they were very experienced in that area, or some of them were new to knitting. But they liked the community aspect, and they liked learning the English vocabulary for something that they were interested in. So really, anything could be a class as long as it’s held in English.

Damien Newton  09:00

You do allow people of all all genders to take the classes or is there a focus or children is it just children and women are included together?

Damien Newton  09:17

The The classes are for adults of any gender. But the kids club is for volunteering. So we do want to make sure we can get have opportunities for elementary and middle school aged kids to volunteer with us. So that’s how we do it.

Katie Neginsky  09:45

But we do have we do host some family literacy events throughout the city and when we do that, then the participants are welcome to invite their children. So typically the children of the Refugee and Immigrant participants are not participating in the English language programming. But they are welcome to attend the family literacy events that we have. So for example, we had one event in Griffith Park where a children’s book author came. And everyone received a copy of her book. She read it to the kids, and she walked them through an art activity. So we do a lot of things like that. That’s, again, the emphasis is on community building, and family literacy. And then there’s an opportunity for families to participate together.

Damien Newton  10:41

IWRC isn’t just local, and one of the transitions here and  weeks, if I remember correctly. And for IWRC related work, because this isn’t your only day job. What is it that you’ll be doing while you’re overseas?

Katie Neginsky  11:02

So IWC works quite closely with the State Department and quite a lot of embassies and the embassies, the US embassies all have a program called Regional English Language Offices that they shortened to RELO. So they look for experts in this field to help them develop English language programming in other countries. So they contract with us often to provide training for English teachers in to write curriculum for students. So right now, we’re doing a lot of curriculum writing around English language learning and American culture, which has been really fun to think about: how do we want to present American culture and not rewrite these normal textbook texts about this is the fourth of July. This is Thanksgiving, like, this is not true American culture we’re trying to get get below the surface a little bit. So we have videos and curriculum, and a podcast, that’s all English language and American culture. And that is being used internationally. And then we also have all the same programming that’s available to IWRC participants in LA. We have programming for women who are displaced from Ukraine, but are still within Europe, and are applying to come to the US or Canada. So in this way, they’re able to start thinking about workforce preparation in English language learning, while they’re waiting for for their papers to come through so they can come to the US. Then we have programming in Africa for South Sudanese in Congolese refugees who are in Uganda, and a third program for women displaced from Myanmar who are in Bangladesh and applying to come to the US or Canada. So all three of these are intended to give those participants tools to either self study or have an online tutor in the US, help them prep before they arrive in the US because the typical model is for refugees and immigrants to be resettled. And then they start English the day after they arrive. And it’s quite stressful. So we’re trying to take advantage of that time while they’re waiting for their paperwork to be processed. So I do a fair amount of traveling to go and check on those programs. And on Friday, I’ll be leaving for Geneva to do some work at the United Nations Office, but also to meet with two partners from Kyiv, who helped with the Ukrainian project. And then in the fall, I’ll be going to Moldova to work with the on the Ukrainian project as well.

Damien Newton  13:59

I mean, this is pretty amazing. Like the officially the nonprofit has existed I think you said I mean, for less than two years I can do that math is pretty quickly in my head. And you have a pretty thriving local program and an international program at the same time. With some crossover between between the two. Is there a is there a secret you can share with me about how you expanded so quickly? 

Katie Neginsky  14:23

I think the the magic in it in was, again, the this platform of wanting to be really responsive to what the participants need and listening to the participants. And we weren’t trying to reinvent the wheel. There are a lot of really fantastic agencies and service providers in Los Angeles County who do fantastic work with refugees and immigrants. However, they do have some restrictions based on their funding model. So a lot of them can’t provide certain services or or they can only provide certain services for a short amount of time. And then they can’t provide those services if the participant moves out of the state. So we’ve just wanted to design our funding so that we don’t have those limitations. And that makes us able to provide services that are a complement to those agencies. So we work very closely with all the resettlement agencies in LA and some of the other service providers. And that way, we can be sure that we’re not duplicating services, but we’re complementing services. So we’ve really struck a need that was there. So it’s just taken off really quickly. And a lot of that wouldn’t have been possible before COVID, because it wasn’t so common to have so much virtual programming. So now timing and design this, is the magic combination.

Damien Newton  16:04

We should have done this about six or seven minutes ago. But we talked you talked a lot about the different ways that people could get involved. And we will have again, the links with the text accompanying in the podcast, but what is the website where you go, the first portal, someone should go to if they want to? If they’re interested in volunteering, is it obvious from the IWRC webpage? Or should they be going somewhere else?

Katie Neginsky  16:27

Yes, it’s quite clear at the website is In there is a tab that says “Get Involved.” And that has all of the different volunteer roles. It also has information. If you would like to pass out flyers within your community to let participants know that we exist and that our services are available to them. We can work with refugees, immigrants, asylees undocumented people, we don’t have any restrictions. Or if you’d like to host a fundraiser or if you want to get involved with the kids clubs are helped spread the word in any way. Or if you have other ideas. Again, we’re super flexible and responsive to the participants. But that extends to the volunteers as well. So if you have ideas, I’d love to hear them.

Damien Newton  17:22

Right. I sometimes will shorthand nonprofits that just their initials. And I should remember that the takes you to the Iowa Waste Resource Center. So

Katie Neginsky  17:35

They sound very important as well, but very different.

Damien Newton  17:38

Yes. different missions. Yeah. I remember it was one of the Iowa colleges that had that too. But anyway, yeah, cuz of course, I punched that into my internet when Natalya first introduced us and was like, oh, that’s probably not right.

Katie Neginsky  17:52

They they preempted my handle. Yeah.

Damien Newton  17:55

I believe the Los Angeles County bike coalition’s is something weird, too, which is why there something else. But yeah, we got Streetsblog first. I guess some people in New York got Streetsblog first, but they became friends with us. So I think that kind of wraps up the sort of basics. If people want to learn more, they should really go to the There’s some information that’s in the essay that wasn’t here. I don’t want to preempt it too much, because people should read the essay to that you wrote. And there’s contact information all over the website. For people that have more questions, or all of any of that. It’s really cool work that you do. And I said, as we were talking, I was thinking of ways that either possibly me or some of our events we do at our church might be able to cross over we have a quilting group. So as you were talking about knitting, that was natural…

Katie Neginsky  18:46

oh, I have an idea. Oh, light bulb, so we’ll talk about it. All right.  I’ll add if there are any teachers or participate possible participants tuned in, if we have a little section of IWRC that we fondly call curiosity literacy. And if you go to that website,, which you can get to it from our regular website as well. We have a full curriculum that we’ve written, and it’s translated into several support languages. So Ukrainian, Russian, Bangla, Burmese, Swahili, Farsi and Dari. So if you are a teacher who’s working with English language learners, and you would like those materials, they are all available for free. You can download them as fillable PDFs. We have an amazing graphic designer, and so they’re very beautiful. And they’re designed for adults, and they’re all trauma informed, and they’re really fun and interesting. Those are great resources for teachers, but also for any English language learners who would like to study independently. They’re designed to be used by either group.

Damien Newton  20:10

So we’re running up against what I always joke is our artificially created time limit. Because, you know, it’s the internet, we can go as long as we want to. But we do try to keep the podcast to about 30 minutes as three segments. So that again, very easy math. We are recording on Back To School Day in Los Angeles. And so I all four of our combined kids, you have two also, 

Katie Neginsky  20:33

yes, nine and five. So all four of our combined kids are away, hurray 

Damien Newton  20:40

…at the moment, which means we can talk about them in our fun question segment. So one of the things we’ve asked a lot of people that have been on this podcast, that are involved in politics about their kids’ future plans are what they do and how they tie into that. So you, obviously, a passion for you is creating volunteer opportunities for people. Do either of your kids have a volunteer activity that they do regularly? Or have just started doing something like that, that you really enjoy and that they enjoy?

Katie Neginsky  21:17

Yeah, great question. My parents really emphasized this when I was growing up in rural Appalachia. So it looked different than it does in LA. But that was really instilled in me from an early age. So want to make sure I do the same with my kids. My son is very into marine biology and sharks right now. So he’s been going to the Heal the Bay Aquarium camp in Santa Monica. And it’s really fantastic. They talk a lot about conservation, and they do beach cleanup. He’s five but at least for now, he’s very passionate about this. My daughter has really taken a page out of her aunt’s book her aunt is Natalia Zernitskaya, who ran for Santa Monica City Council.

Damien Newton  22:15

She might run again one day to.

Katie Neginsky  22:17

I believe so. And she’s very passionate about many things, but especially housing. And my daughter is very interested in this issue as well. And she is adamant that when she is old enough, she will become involved in politics in that she will be the one to solve the housing crisis in Santa Monica and LA.

Damien Newton  22:39

I mean, I hope we’ll have it figured out by then. But I mean, that’s a good goal.

Katie Neginsky  22:44

So y’all, y’all have nine years to figure it out. Otherwise, my daughter’s coming in?

Damien Newton  22:48

Oh, yeah. Coming in hot. All right. Um, so on the same sort of thing talking about volunteerism and young people. I was gonna say you were young once, but you might still think of yourself as young I’m old enough now…You were you were younger ones. Do you have you come to have some sort of of history or background in volunteering when you were a child?

Katie Neginsky  23:19

Again, in rural North Carolina, everything’s attached to the church. And my mother was very involved with the church. So we did so many, so many different activities, through the church to help serve the community. Samaritan’s Purse is based in my hometown, so we did a lot of volunteer work with them as I was growing up. Additionally, my dad had an oncology practice in North Carolina in a rural area. And my mom was a hospice nurse. And so, it was an interesting area to do this sort of medicine, because not everyone has running water in their house. Not everyone has electricity, not everyone has a phone. So if you’re working with a patient, before, you can think about a medical treatment plan, you also have to think about reducing some of these barriers they have. So they really instilled this ethos in me of serving the whole patient in order to best treat them and I really take that to heart now in consider serving the whole student. When I have ESL students in my class, I’m thinking about making sure that they have stable housing, that they have food security. All of these things, of course, are really important if they are to learn in class. So that was a big part of my upbringing.

Damien Newton  24:45

Um, so generally, we call these the fun questions, but they’re more get to know your questions, but we haven’t really hit anything. I think that’s super fun yet, so why don’t we do more of an easier fun one. All right. So I turned my phone off and my computer text message just dinged so there we go. Um, you know, I’m gonna leave that in so people don’t think I’m getting too professional

Katie Neginsky  25:11

humanizes you.

Damien Newton  25:12

Oh yeah, absolutely. So is there anything interesting that you have read or seen in theaters recently? Maybe a summer Boobook orker, a recent movie I guess you have kids maybe you I don’t know saw Spider Man this summer now he’s probably too young for Spider Man. 

Damien Newton  25:29

No Spider Man yet. I did. I did indulge in the the Oppenheimer Barbie combo … not in one day, but two days apart. Yeah, I Barbieheimmered. So that was great. I thought that that was cool to have this almost monoculture moment in the US that everyone could come together. over And then before we started the podcast, I was gushing about Dolly Parton. Because I recently re listened to the Dolly Parton’s America podcast, which is a mini series. I think it’s eight episodes. And it’s so fantastic. It’s of course she is our queen. But the podcast is all about how she is relevant across barriers. And I think it’s really important in the US as it’s so divisive here. And as I’m thinking of how to present American culture to new Americans who are arriving, it’s hard to do without thinking about divisions. But Dolly is popular regardless of wealth, education, sexuality, gender, anything. I mean, she’s fantastic. Everyone loves her. And they have data to back it up in the podcast about how she’s beloved across all division. And, yeah, she’s so fantastic. And I actually am going to be making Dolly Parton brownies today. I don’t know if y’all know she has it.

Damien Newton  27:04

Oh, and she has a cornbread mix too. 

Katie Neginsky  27:10

It’s good. If you’re gonna make something out of a box, Dolly does it right.

Damien Newton  27:13

Maybe coconut cake. There’s another cake. Coconut Cake?

Katie Neginsky  27:16

I’ve made it. It’s great. Okay.

Damien Newton  27:22

We’ve done the brownies also. But we haven’t done the other two yet. But is as I was relaying we’re I don’t know that I call said “Dolly Parton family” but we’ve had we’re all big supporters and fans of the amazing work she’s done with her life. You know, from country music star to adult literacy and youth literacy champion, like, what’s not an absolutely what’s not the love

Katie Neginsky  27:45

And all the students that have from around the world? No, “I will Always Love You.” The Whitney Houston version. It doesn’t matter what country they’re from Mynamar, Ukraine, Uganda they know and love this song. So of course I have to let them know who wrote it.

Damien Newton  28:00

That’s That’s right. Don’t let them don’t let Celine Dion and get away with anything. 

Katie Neginsky  28:05

Whitney Whitney? 

Damien Newton  28:07

Oh god, I’m thinking My Heart Will Go On which Kenny Rogers I think anyway. 

Damien Newton  28:12

Well, maybe I’m wrong here. I’m going to look it up later. But I remember Celine Dion wasn’t the one who wrote that someone else did. But anyway.

Katie Neginsky  28:25

If Kenny Rogers wrote My Heart Will Go On that would be the  greatest fact of my week.

Damien Newton  28:30

Ya know, Kenny Rogers wrote Patsy Cline’s big hit “Crazy.” So I don’t think he also would Celine Dion’s big hit.

Damien Newton  28:37

Patsy Cline. We’re about to start a music class at IWRC. And I’ve just been really excited about all of the American music we can introduce the students to.

Damien Newton  28:48

I don’t remember how but somehow Patsy Cline fell into my CD collection in high school. And it’s always shocked people knowing me throughout the years that I can belt out like six or seven Patsy Cline songs. So I’m a terrible singer, that I’ll just sing Patsy Cline to people that like whoa, that’s, I guess it’s not part of my part of my look or something.

Katie Neginsky 29:08

I love this area of music. I really wanted to name my daughter Loretta, after Loretta Lynn. But I was vetoed.

Damien Newton  29:21

So we only did three questions, but we had multiple answers to them. And we’re again running up against our artificially created time limit so I’m gonna call it three as people that have listened to the podcast our tradition is you can turn around and ask me one of the questions which is both to stop me from asking super crazy questions. And also to give people that listen or read a chance to know me a little better so that they can better understand where we’re coming from with our stories. It’s okay not to ask me something this is actually the first time we haven’t had a question about food in our in our fun questions.

Katie Neginsky  29:53

Oh, this is a good topic. Can I ask you something you did not ask me.

Damien Newton  29:59

I mean I guess it’s there’s no hard rules.

Katie Neginsky  30:03

Okay, so if you were going to talk to one of my classes with students from all around the world and they ask you what is American food? Because they all come into class and say hamburgers, and then I, I am campaigning that this is not. Of course Americans eat hamburgers, but we eat other things as well. So what is something quintessentially American to you? That’s not hot dogs or hamburgers,

Damien Newton  30:28

I would say we like to cook outside as a country. You know, if you don’t live in an area that’s too cold, we do really like putting things on grills, which would lead to hot dogs and hamburgers, but I would have gone with I wouldn’t have gone with either of those, I would have gone with barbecue. And it’s something it doesn’t have to be meat, you can have barbecue on lots of different things. And both, you can take that to either mean the sauce or go back to my cooking outside.

Katie Neginsky  30:57

Regional because in the south,  barbecue is pulled pork. Yes. And it’s not a verb.

Damien Newton  31:04

And there’s a lot of places that would also say that to Kansas City, St. Louis,

Katie Neginsky  31:10

but then Texas, it’s going to be different.

Damien Newton  31:12

But right but we’ll also you know, barbecued ribs. I grew up in central Pennsylvania, if you said barbecue, there was a 50% chance you meant ribs. And then other people just say you know something on the Barbie, you know, which I know is the bad Australian accent. But you know, we barbecued shrimp just usually mean shrimp on a stick. It can but doesn’t necessarily mean there’s barbecue sauce on it. So I would go with barbecue and let that be an expansive that you can go regional categories. Yeah, it means ribs or pulled pork or you can go that it just means on a barbecue.

Katie Neginsky  31:48

In North Carolina, we usually won’t use barbecue as a verbal site cookout. Yeah, I’m gonna cook out. But that’s the fun and the beauty of the US in the English language. You know,

Damien Newton  32:03

and I actually looked up other other cultures and eating outside once because as ridiculous as this may sound there’s a part in Mulan the Disney movie which my daughter loved where she was. She was trying to prove she was a guy to the other soldiers and she lists off a bunch of random things. And one of them was I like to cook outside and at that point, they’re all talking over her. Is that something they would have done in China there is I always sort of maybe it’s because again Central Pennsylvania I always picture like, you know, outside with your circular barbeque grill covered in charcoal. But yes, they do do it in other parts of the world. But I still I always imagined like you know, Hank hill or me or with our with our propane or charcoal barbecues. You know, trying to cook something that you can cook just as easily inside.

Katie Neginsky  32:57

Yeah, absolutely. But it’s way more fun.

Damien Newton  33:01

I think so too.

Katie Neginsky  33:02

These are all the all the fun topics we get to dig into in class. The other one the students mentioned is peanut butter, because this is horrifying to a lot of populations. And they don’t understand Americans need to put peanut butter and everything.

Damien Newton  33:17

Yeah, you know, though, you could use peanut butter as a base with some oil. And to make a lot of Asian peanut mixes in Thai and Chinese and Japanese

Damien Newton  33:29

Southeast Asian students that I have like from Myanmar. They they’re fine with peanut butter. Yeah, Eastern European students don’t horrify or not on the peanut butter bandwagon. Especially that sometimes it’s salty. Sometimes it’s sweet. Like it’s in smoothies. It’s it’s in all the things. So we recently had a class where we were talking about peanut butter in this as the guys to talk about George Washington Carver in the contributions of African American inventors in the US and then talk about race in the US. So usually, I start every class talking about food, and then Trojan horse some more substantial American culture pieces into the class.

Damien Newton  34:20

My significant other in college was Korean. Like her parents were from Korea. She wasn’t born there. But her older sister was and she said that American peanut butter is like the the secret cheat. Don’t tell if you’re if you’re having an Asian family over and you’re making a peanut sauce recipe and use peanut butter. It’s totally okay to do because they won’t be able to tell the difference unless you tell them and then don’t. And what a weird way to end our podcast. So again, yeah, it’s or was the other web you mentioned and again all of that stuff will be linked in with the text that accompanies the podcast and thank you so much for being with us today

speaker 2  35:05

yeah thank you

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